The Cleon storyline is great and makes this the most interesting episode since the first one. The religious robot is still ridiculous but her presence and her "robot nature" actually give this plot a nice little kick at the end. I'm actually interested now to see where the series takes this. However, the Anacreons' attempt to take over Invictus fails to be compelling. And I finally realized why. Single-minded vengeance is fine in a 90 minute movie but gets boring when spread out over several episodes. The Huntress has no nuance. I don't think it's an acting problem but rather a writing problem. How many times can we watch the Huntress spit threats and rage against the Empire before we roll our eyes and say "yeah, we get it...you're mad." And Gaal...I'm sorry but I feel there's an acting AND a writing problem with this character. The interactions between her and Hari Seldon (digital version) could be skipped over without impacting the story that much. At least that's how it feels right now. Purists may complain about the revealed location of Second Foundation but remember there's still more episodes to go. I don't care much where they put it but I hope its existence will add some needed heft to the series.
43 Reviews
Great episode, but big changes from the original work can reduce great plot development opportunities.
fabiodonatoat5 November 2021
Warning: Spoilers
Despite the huge difference compared to the books, I consider the series has been really well executed and I've been enjoying it a lot. However, two things cannot go without concern in this episode.
Two serious infringements of the original work were committed during this episode. A robot cannot simply kill a human being (actually, a robot shouldn't be roaming around the galaxy, and people shouldn't even be aware of the previous existence of robots. But on this point the way it was re-imagined by the creators is equally interesting).
I hope the explanations for these deviations are at least excellent, otherwise the show is missing huge plot development opportunities.
Two serious infringements of the original work were committed during this episode. A robot cannot simply kill a human being (actually, a robot shouldn't be roaming around the galaxy, and people shouldn't even be aware of the previous existence of robots. But on this point the way it was re-imagined by the creators is equally interesting).
I hope the explanations for these deviations are at least excellent, otherwise the show is missing huge plot development opportunities.
Best episode so far.
gerardchalaux6 November 2021
Incredible episode, definitely the best one so far, it was intense and filled with (almost) unexpected events that really makes you wonder how things are gonna develop from now on.
There's one thing that truly annoyed me though, and it's how inconsistent technology is portrayed in this show; one episode you can believe it's technology so far away from us that it looks like magic, but then the next it falls into classic clichés like ships failing after smashing a screen or hacking doors by booping a hard-drive twice with your fingers, complete nonsense straight out of a cheap 80's sci-fi movie.
Anyway, I still don't understand why the book fanboys keep expecting this show to be something different. Just accept it's inspired by the books, but it's not the books, deal with it and move on, the show is very good for what it is and all you keep doing is review-bomb the show with low scores. Seriously, move on.
There's one thing that truly annoyed me though, and it's how inconsistent technology is portrayed in this show; one episode you can believe it's technology so far away from us that it looks like magic, but then the next it falls into classic clichés like ships failing after smashing a screen or hacking doors by booping a hard-drive twice with your fingers, complete nonsense straight out of a cheap 80's sci-fi movie.
Anyway, I still don't understand why the book fanboys keep expecting this show to be something different. Just accept it's inspired by the books, but it's not the books, deal with it and move on, the show is very good for what it is and all you keep doing is review-bomb the show with low scores. Seriously, move on.
I don't even know what's going on anymore
hafaball-17 November 2021
Warning: Spoilers
Gaal is gone I guess for 130 or whatever years now and we spent a whole episode with her whining because digital ghost Hari won't tell her the reason for the 2nd Foundation?
Salvor is still in this mindless shootout with Phara and her people only to later find matrix people? (tbf I skip through most of her scenes.)
Then the best part was Lee Pace who felt empathy for the old man dying while walking with him, but he just becomes a total sociopathic Emperor when he reaches the Womb, just so he can make the priestess lady feel bad because she made him feel bad? Then for her to realize robot lady is a robot even though we know she's a robot already so there really was no reveal? Then he has her killed??
What was the point of any of this? I was mostly distracted with Lee Pace looking like a turkey out of the oven for 90% of the episode, so that was funny at least.
Salvor is still in this mindless shootout with Phara and her people only to later find matrix people? (tbf I skip through most of her scenes.)
Then the best part was Lee Pace who felt empathy for the old man dying while walking with him, but he just becomes a total sociopathic Emperor when he reaches the Womb, just so he can make the priestess lady feel bad because she made him feel bad? Then for her to realize robot lady is a robot even though we know she's a robot already so there really was no reveal? Then he has her killed??
What was the point of any of this? I was mostly distracted with Lee Pace looking like a turkey out of the oven for 90% of the episode, so that was funny at least.
Different but Excellent!
alan_newgate5 November 2021
Really Starting to Pay Off
dewberrydays5 November 2021
Warning: Spoilers
Wow, that scene between Demerzel and Zephyr Halima. One of the most powerful so far. This episode was definitely on the level of the first. The show is best when it shifts between the three different stories but gives us adequate screen time with each of the characters we are supposed to care for or at least identify with. Namely, in this episode, Demerzel, Salvor, and Gaal. But also Brother Day, even though I revile him. I'm excited for the final episodes of this season. I think this show could really take off and be the next GoT (in space) if they learn from some of the soulless episodes in the middle of the season and inject more heart into the show. These recent episodes have done that and it has really improved the show. And O M G that twist ending!! Turns out Cleon didn't have a vision at all. Excited to see where Demerzel's character goes from here. You can't help but think she's going to be instrumental in the fall of the Empire. Or at least that she'll survive it.
Best Episode Yet 🔥
jyothishjohn5 November 2021
Shoulda let her boil/burn......
faithless473423 January 2022
The thread containing the Empire is by FAR the best part of this story the further into this I get. I could complete do without Harry and whats-her-name and her childish tantrums. It would have increased the stars had they let her burn.
Foundation on TV is doing what Dune wishes it did in cinema.
aslisonceley23 November 2021
Warning: Spoilers
This episode truly captivated me both with its stylistic choices and the layers of philosophical questions it is packed with.
Brother Day / Empire naturally alludes to the many big systems, too big to fail institutions, as well as individual success figures that seemingly run the world today. This episode is his / its confrontation with an even higher power - cue in religion. But because religion itself bears the same vulnerabilities of any organized system he's able to play its game, trick it and win at it.
Nothing surprising here. As Brother Day reaches no big revelation, no true humbling, no stripping off of his arrogance at the end of this journey, but he does take a blow from his closest ally. And this dynamic lands at an even bigger twist of events in the season finale.
I like that the series has been scratching that "can A. I. have a soul?" question throughout the season. And this is the perfect question to explore upon Demerzel, Foundation's only A. I. character, in fact the only A. I. that still lives in the story universe, who also embodies mother, sister, wife power dynamics in subtle ways.
Lastly, I love the episode for a memorable, picturesque performance by Lee Pace who curls and drags his body across the landscape, hovering, almost tipping over, like a character from a painting.
Good show. Probably underrated, because people expect to see laser guns, and stuff exploding in sci-fi genre.
Brother Day / Empire naturally alludes to the many big systems, too big to fail institutions, as well as individual success figures that seemingly run the world today. This episode is his / its confrontation with an even higher power - cue in religion. But because religion itself bears the same vulnerabilities of any organized system he's able to play its game, trick it and win at it.
Nothing surprising here. As Brother Day reaches no big revelation, no true humbling, no stripping off of his arrogance at the end of this journey, but he does take a blow from his closest ally. And this dynamic lands at an even bigger twist of events in the season finale.
I like that the series has been scratching that "can A. I. have a soul?" question throughout the season. And this is the perfect question to explore upon Demerzel, Foundation's only A. I. character, in fact the only A. I. that still lives in the story universe, who also embodies mother, sister, wife power dynamics in subtle ways.
Lastly, I love the episode for a memorable, picturesque performance by Lee Pace who curls and drags his body across the landscape, hovering, almost tipping over, like a character from a painting.
Good show. Probably underrated, because people expect to see laser guns, and stuff exploding in sci-fi genre.
The Lee Pace show
bobetjo5 November 2021
Lee Pace is very good. The rest of the story not so much. As other reviewers pointed out Asimov's robots cannot kill a human or through inaction allow a human to come to harm.
But this isn't Asimov.
The rest of this mess was just about watchable.
But this isn't Asimov.
The rest of this mess was just about watchable.
The Best and touching episode yet.
arthuroliveira-653675 November 2021
Warning: Spoilers
Even for book purists, you have to recognize that the show is great in its own way. Today's episode was one of the most touching of the sci fi genre I've ever seen, especially on the part of Emperor Cleon and his assistant Demerzel.
Regarding the Seldon and Gaal part, I got one thing. For those who don't see sense in Gall's ability to Predict the Future, it may be that Seldon sees it as a way to build and guide the psychic inhabitants of the second foundation, which will be explored in coming seasons. And on the basis of the second heleicon foundation, I'll bet $1 that it's just another Seldon bluff, because whoever knows the original material knows where the second foundation is. And I'm also betting a dollar that Seldon predicted Gaal's every move in this episode.
This episode proves that despite having several changes in relation to the books (which was expected, which Asimov already agreed) that the show is brilliant and needs to follow every episode to see that it ties everything together at the end.
Regarding the Seldon and Gaal part, I got one thing. For those who don't see sense in Gall's ability to Predict the Future, it may be that Seldon sees it as a way to build and guide the psychic inhabitants of the second foundation, which will be explored in coming seasons. And on the basis of the second heleicon foundation, I'll bet $1 that it's just another Seldon bluff, because whoever knows the original material knows where the second foundation is. And I'm also betting a dollar that Seldon predicted Gaal's every move in this episode.
This episode proves that despite having several changes in relation to the books (which was expected, which Asimov already agreed) that the show is brilliant and needs to follow every episode to see that it ties everything together at the end.
Little better than 'meh..' but still a lot of fillers
matrioshka-brain5 November 2021
This is just a "meh" episode, maube little better. There are 3 parallel stories in this episode, 1 completely negates whatever was done on that story line, second was a complete filler with almost no progess or so, 3rd was a take on Empire which is kinda unique but I am not sure it will add much to the overall story. And oh god that "Gale" or "Gail" or whatever is such a cry baby character, why they even introduced her.
Gaal...
stqtwywqy5 November 2021
Warning: Spoilers
Her storyline nullifies all others efforts. If you've read the book you would know that the Foundation is the result of group of people who devoted themselves to shorten the extremely long period of galactic dark age by using the power of science and brilliant minds.
Here everything depends on hysterical young lady who feels that she's not as important as she should be. Only one thing that we can learn from this tv series: never assign tasks with long term consequences to emotionally unstable people.
Here everything depends on hysterical young lady who feels that she's not as important as she should be. Only one thing that we can learn from this tv series: never assign tasks with long term consequences to emotionally unstable people.
Is this Dune + Foundation?
dusadomovine6 November 2021
Can someone tell me where in the Foundation story by Asimov there is "Space-Folding" and "Spacers"? Are the young writers mixing a bit of Dune into Foundation? Why did Apple even call this Foundation if it is not Foundation?
It's just getting better and better
kodak2555 November 2021
Surely the best episode after first two episodes
tapuskovicluka6 November 2021
Warning: Spoilers
Pilgrimage scene with Cleon is just amazing and visualy beautiful. From one episode to another, Lee Pace shows why he is a brilliant actor. Also there is scene between Demerzel and Zephyr Halima. If we neglect that Demerzel breaks first of three Asimov's robotic laws, we get one powerful scene.
One of the best episode
northwooda5 November 2021
I hope people who put 1-5 star stop watching this series! Why are you doing this if you don't like this show? Facepalm.
About this episode, it is just gorgeous!!! As well as the acting, this is one of the best episode, the series hides a lot of mysteries, the plot is very interesting, thanks!
About this episode, it is just gorgeous!!! As well as the acting, this is one of the best episode, the series hides a lot of mysteries, the plot is very interesting, thanks!
This was an episode in love of sci fi movies
Wookieetreiber19 November 2021
Warning: Spoilers
Did anyone else recognize the HUGE Event Horizon Easter Egg?
The Cross Window... the stuff about folding space... the question where this may have been... hilarious!
This was so funny.
But also the rest of the episode was very well written and exicuted.
The Cross Window... the stuff about folding space... the question where this may have been... hilarious!
This was so funny.
But also the rest of the episode was very well written and exicuted.
Im in love with this show, and Apple has the best service and writers on the planet
moviesfilmsreviewsinc22 June 2023
Eight episodes in, I am still enjoying a show called Psychohistory, which focuses on a mathematical formula predicting civilization's end and a formula to counteract it. However, the show has become an afterthought, focusing on elements that align with my interests, such as revenge, hero journeys, ghost ships, robots, esoteric rules, art deco-accented production design, latent psychic powers, and space warriors using bows. These elements are largely based on books, but have been magnified and expanded upon, making the original conceit nearly lost. Brother Day must endure a pilgrimage to the Mother's Womb, a vision-bestowing salt cave, to silence dissent against his humanity led by Zephyr Halima. He has his shield taken and nanobots extracted from his blood before joining the unwashed masses on their shared journey. The story is based on a galactic scale, with Lee Pace walking around in a Robert Smithson installation. In the Invictus, fewer than half of the pilgrims survive the ordeal, and Day, despite his physical perfection, has been well-insulated from adversity for his entire life. He encounters a traveler who speaks of his life working on a planet designated for producing toxic goods, such as ceramics and textiles. This humanistic aspect adds to the anecdote, hinting that exposing Day to humanity's most open and fragile humanity may induce a spiritual awakening. However, the Empire has been a cold-blooded killer for 400 years, and it will take more than one afternoon to change that. Upon returning to the temple, Day fabricates a vision that the Zephyr interprets as proof of his living soul, and sends Demerzel to murder his rival. Demerzel and Halima's exchange sets a false note for the ambitious priestess' character, who is now a gentle humility at odds with her established behavior. The show's treatment of religion with cynicism is unlikely, and the question of whether she should have experienced a vision in the cave where Day did not is a damning indictment of Day's spiritual paucity. Back on the Invictus, Salvor struggles to stop Phara from crashing the ship into Trantor. A flashback to Phara's childhood and the day Imperial ships rained devastation on her planet and killed her brother reinforces her humanity. Salvor and the last surviving captive navigate onto the bridge, where they hope to prevent the ship from jumping wild again. They learn that jump travel was very different 700 years ago, with pilots hard-wired into the ship and using an arcane method of knowledge and willpower to shape the ship's destination. This makes the show feel like a place over 10,000 years in the future. Hari agrees and allows Gaal to hop back into the life pod, setting her destination for a 130-year journey. Gaal's psychic ability and second foundation are revealed aboard the ship, but it's a clumsy interlude. Gaal has been a passive character this season, serving as a receptacle for exposition and world-building. The show's future events may involve her being a more active participant, but it's a drag to watch now. The show's two episodes left to determine if Gaal will truly sleep for over a hundred years or be prematurely revived as her pod rams into a giant space-hopping warship.
Episode: Even masterminds bleed
rikudouensof6 November 2021
Empire and Founder have proven yet again. To get things done is all about front.
They are never prefect, will be broken and have their plans shattered.
The reason why they succeed is that they standup from their fall, and use whatever tool the way they deem necessary to achieve their goals.
They are never prefect, will be broken and have their plans shattered.
The reason why they succeed is that they standup from their fall, and use whatever tool the way they deem necessary to achieve their goals.
Glacially slow, trope filled, infantile writing
adrian-4587 November 2021
Why. Is. It. So. Slow? It's not as if it's high drama, filled with deep and complex concepts. Perhaps the writers think a glacial pace, filled with emoting, pouting and soul-searching makes good SF? Nah... it just exposes the gaping void at the heart where the story should have been. This hardly qualifies as science fiction, and is about as far from 'Hard' SF as you could get, as it's almost entirely devoid of any scientific basis and what there is is completely misunderstood or just plain wrong.
Picking just one (of many) egregious examples of the shoddy, hack writing - Demerzel. Again, he/she/it displays the now obligatory patch of skin removed to show it's a robot. A robot! Thanks, writers, for showing us the same thing again! We might have forgotten!
If this is a positron robot, then it's governed by the Three laws and absolutely cannot injure a human being, or through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. This is not an 'optional extra', it's built in and cannot be circumvented without the robot destroying itself. This is the fundamental thing about Asimov's robots. Go back to the time when he wrote his first 'robot' stories. Up to that point, in every SF story that featured a robot, they would inevitably turn on their creators in Frankentsteins Monster fashion - itself, a reworking of Faust. Bored with this obvious and hackneyed trope, he wrote his robots to be incapable of harming humans, as they were designed with safeguards built in, like any tool. A much better and creative way of dealing with the subject. Along comes Goyer, who undoes all that and has reverted to the tediously predictable 'murderous robot' theme.
Before you can say "It's different to the books so they can do anything, Book-reading Hater", Goyer himself says "Asimov's Robotics Laws do exist in the universe of the show - but that doesn't necessarily mean Demerzel is presently bound by them." Not presently bound by them? What in the name of Susan Calvin are you talking about? Is Demerzel suddenly going to discover the 3 Laws? Or.... Drum Roll.... the Zeroth Law! Daneel is governed by the Zeroth Law, but finds it so difficult to work with, he's practically incapable of doing anything. Not so Goyers Demerzel.
So we may confidently expect to see another heap of steaming garbage inserted into Goyers MCU Foundation Lite. Honestly... if he secured the money for this on the basis that he was adapting the Foundation novels, it's looking dangerously like fraud, as it's clear that from the outset he just wanted the Asimov/Foundation brand and had no intention of even paying lip-service to the source material.
Instead of a brilliant story from the mind of a master story teller, we get this vacuous, infantile, re-heated, tedious mish-mash of every other TV SF show, all packaged in a gorgeous looking Superhero Movie flavoured capsule.
As for the poor souls giving this 9 or 10 star ratings - is the bar really set that low? What on Earth are you comparing it to? Peppa Pig? Dr. Who? Frankie Drake? The Good Witch? Any of the 483 Zombie/Superhero series? If you can walk and chew gum at the same time you should be angry that the writers are treating you like an idiot and hoping you won't notice.
3 stars - because I feel sorry for the costume/makeup/production crews who at least put time and effort into their work - more than can be said for the writers.
Picking just one (of many) egregious examples of the shoddy, hack writing - Demerzel. Again, he/she/it displays the now obligatory patch of skin removed to show it's a robot. A robot! Thanks, writers, for showing us the same thing again! We might have forgotten!
If this is a positron robot, then it's governed by the Three laws and absolutely cannot injure a human being, or through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. This is not an 'optional extra', it's built in and cannot be circumvented without the robot destroying itself. This is the fundamental thing about Asimov's robots. Go back to the time when he wrote his first 'robot' stories. Up to that point, in every SF story that featured a robot, they would inevitably turn on their creators in Frankentsteins Monster fashion - itself, a reworking of Faust. Bored with this obvious and hackneyed trope, he wrote his robots to be incapable of harming humans, as they were designed with safeguards built in, like any tool. A much better and creative way of dealing with the subject. Along comes Goyer, who undoes all that and has reverted to the tediously predictable 'murderous robot' theme.
Before you can say "It's different to the books so they can do anything, Book-reading Hater", Goyer himself says "Asimov's Robotics Laws do exist in the universe of the show - but that doesn't necessarily mean Demerzel is presently bound by them." Not presently bound by them? What in the name of Susan Calvin are you talking about? Is Demerzel suddenly going to discover the 3 Laws? Or.... Drum Roll.... the Zeroth Law! Daneel is governed by the Zeroth Law, but finds it so difficult to work with, he's practically incapable of doing anything. Not so Goyers Demerzel.
So we may confidently expect to see another heap of steaming garbage inserted into Goyers MCU Foundation Lite. Honestly... if he secured the money for this on the basis that he was adapting the Foundation novels, it's looking dangerously like fraud, as it's clear that from the outset he just wanted the Asimov/Foundation brand and had no intention of even paying lip-service to the source material.
Instead of a brilliant story from the mind of a master story teller, we get this vacuous, infantile, re-heated, tedious mish-mash of every other TV SF show, all packaged in a gorgeous looking Superhero Movie flavoured capsule.
As for the poor souls giving this 9 or 10 star ratings - is the bar really set that low? What on Earth are you comparing it to? Peppa Pig? Dr. Who? Frankie Drake? The Good Witch? Any of the 483 Zombie/Superhero series? If you can walk and chew gum at the same time you should be angry that the writers are treating you like an idiot and hoping you won't notice.
3 stars - because I feel sorry for the costume/makeup/production crews who at least put time and effort into their work - more than can be said for the writers.
Dermerzel and Olivaw.
pidstr6 November 2021
Fans of Asimov's books already know that Dermerzel is R. Daneel Olivaw, and although Olivaw can operate under the Zeroth Law, putting humanity ahead of a human, breaking the First Law by committing murder under an order from a human still will not be possible. Second Law being over-ruled by First Law.
Olivaw could allow wars or even Seldon's death, as part of a plan to save humanity, but could not commit the act of murder.
Beyond that glaring error, the series as a whole is proving enjoyable, even if Hari (Haar-ii, like Marta Hari) is being pronounced Harr-ree (Like Prince Harry)
Olivaw could allow wars or even Seldon's death, as part of a plan to save humanity, but could not commit the act of murder.
Beyond that glaring error, the series as a whole is proving enjoyable, even if Hari (Haar-ii, like Marta Hari) is being pronounced Harr-ree (Like Prince Harry)
Amazing Performance
samrodrigues13 November 2021
My favorite Hard Sci-Fi series
jademann-296826 November 2021
I will start by saying that Foundation was my favorite Hard Sci Fi series and I have read many of them over the last 60 years. It inspired ALL the great space sci-fi stories which came after.
I have wondered why they did not make it into a TV series or series of Movies before now, and I think that everyone agrees that it needed additional elements to make it work on the big screen.
What the story, writers, producers, directors and all the cast have done is an incredible masterful adaptation and totally worthy of the original material. Well done! It just keeps getting better. I am so looking forward to seeing all 70 episodes.
I have wondered why they did not make it into a TV series or series of Movies before now, and I think that everyone agrees that it needed additional elements to make it work on the big screen.
What the story, writers, producers, directors and all the cast have done is an incredible masterful adaptation and totally worthy of the original material. Well done! It just keeps getting better. I am so looking forward to seeing all 70 episodes.
See also
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